Saturday, October 8, 2011

True Punishment

Punishment that's part of play isn't truly punishment. It's good hurt, not after you've been "bad" hurt. True crime, spot-on reprimand isn't fun but when it is administered fairly by a dominant I think it can be an integral part of a bdsm relationship.

However, for me, the line is fine. When is punishment fair and fit to the submissive's grubby little caper for which he's been caught red-handed and when does it cross over to the disproportionate? Should us subbie guys have any say either before or after the fact; or is correction the simple and exclusive métier of the domme?

I suppose I don't envision life in a dommy dictatorship. I like to think that I might be permitted to plead my case prior to the imposition of sentence; or at the very least file an emotional appeal after the fact in the hopes of future understanding, compassion, and lenity.

Obviously, that's the fast talking lawyer in me.

I do admit to the attraction of just going with my domme's mood and flow; but in my opinion that's ultimately a recipe for passive aggressive, misdirected, connection damaging retaliation on my part. I think in any relationship, there has to be some sort of positive dialogue and communication; the imposition of punishment shouldn't withstand exclusion from a list of relationship talking points.

My musings are inspired by my recent long weekend and current interactions with She-Who-Visits. My unique, long distance, challenging relationship with her is the closest I've come in my life to a "lifestyle" bond with a domme. Our ties to one another are deep, long lasting, and complex. We've been "together" for five years though most of the time we live thousands of miles apart.

This past trip was wonderful. But more than any other face time we've spent; she said very mean and cutting things to me and chose to impose real punishment. It wasn't so much the substance of the mean things she said which hurt so much but the way she delivered it.

Sometimes, I don't even think she realizes she says very cutting and hurtful things. I can't really give examples because they are so personal and involve her life and my life in a way I'm just not comfortable sharing in the blogosphere.

Should a domme get a pass on fairness and self awareness just because she's in charge? Should a submissive just suck it up and take it because that's what we've signed up for? I suppose I could try to answer my own questions. But I really don't have any answers. The answers I come up with all breed more questions.

My most recent crime was ending a self imposed stint of on-my-honor chastity. I was at about three weeks when She and I met up for our long weekend. When she asked about how long it had been since I'd come she mocked my pride at making three weeks. An obvious back handed compliment.

Then, despite preparing for a last night of play, punishment took the form of final night denial. No play at all. Very mean things were said.

The next morning I told her she'd hurt me deeply. She said it was very important that I understand my deep transgression and she wanted to drive the point home. Just before we left for the airport I thanked her for not allowing me release. I told her for me, it's win-win. She smiled.

Later, when we retreated to our respective corners of the globe she blithely set a date after which I could end my self imposed stint of chastity. I told her I wished she could watch me. She said if I waited until October 6th; she might be able to. I told her I would.

I didn't.

I suppose I should be punished. She hung up on me Thursday night when I told her what I'd done. She called me a dirty pig and said she wouldn't speak to me until after the weekend.

So here I am; stewing in the juices of my domme's displeasure with me and wondering will her punishment fit my crime - or will it be a cruel, unfitting expression of where she is with her life - essentially unrelated to my passive aggressive act of indulgent self denial.

Getting off would have been so much better with her voice urging me on over the phone.


Her Majesty's Plaything said...

Hi Advo:

You ask a lot of great questions here. I don't really have any answers either. I think any truly dominant woman will probably act in a similar way to what you describe; saying mean and cutting things and/or denying us the pleasures we desperately long for when she is pissed off. Whether we deem her anger "justified" or not seems to have very little bearing on the situation. It's her way or the highway. We did know the job was dangerous when we took it right?

To me the type of "true punishment" you describe equates with real punishment and is much more likely to be the form it takes with U/us at home. As much as I think I might like it for Her Majesty to cane me for transgressions that is never likely to happen. That type of "punishment" is reserved for play in our relationship.

The one big difference here is that Her Majesty and I live together which makes it much easier for us to reach a resolution. At a certain point one tires of hanging on to resentment and one or the other of us will spontaneously reach out to other one and extend the olive branch. Much harder to do that in a long distance relationship I should think.

Great post.

advochasty said...


Sometimes I think the dominant probably doesn't necessarily realize how cutting and hurtful she's being; it's perhaps a part of the personality. Not always, but sometimes.

But She-Who-Visits will sometimes intentionally punish me to teach me a lesson. Real punishment; not caning or spanking. Like months of not talking to me. She's good at it and I have a healthy fear of her cruelty.

This past trip she told me I dirtied up her bathroom too much and made me take my showers outside and made me sleep on the floor our last night at the beach.

That's not punishment. That's fun.

When I'm not in the doghouse I think her real punishments are hot; but I do fear the doghouse. I suppose that's the deterrent value of true punishment.

You're supposed to think before messing up.

advochasty said...

London Escort Service -

Oh great; now I'm getting non-sequitur spam when I'm trying to be serious.

Really? You really want to use the internet like this? And my blog as your own ad?

Give me a break!

Have a fine episode in life whoever you are. You really can do a much better job at advertising than using other people's blogs.

Her Majesty's Plaything said...

They stop at nothing!

Anonymous said...

Is there ever real dominance if the punishment does not cuase the submissive to fear repeateing the infraction? I do not think so. Apologies if I offend but there seems to me a simple choice for a sub. Sign up to non-negotiable frightening punishments which mould behaviour, or don't be a sub.

Aarkey said...

Before I start, why not just delete the spam comment? By leaving it they get rewarded by potential clicks on it. I always delete em, and that seems to keep the # of them down.

With that out of the way, I don't know how you do it. I couldn't go for extended chastity (beyond a few days) without an "escape proof" belt. And yes, I know a belt is a massive PITA to deal with (and perhaps impossible if your work puts you through metal detectors regularly) but that's just something I simply would require.

And second, I don't know how you can do it with a long distance thing. Without having easy and regular meet ups to deal with the reality of that kind of intimate control, I couldn't not enjoy it.

With that said, I have to agree with msscarletuk, and that IMO, if you do not regret your actions (and I mean to sincerely regret it) then you're not punished. Without the castigation (such a lovely word) that she provided, would you have any incentive to stop? If you aren't willing to surrender that control to her, and it sounds like you aren't, at least of late... can she feel that she is truly in control?

The longer I hang in the scene, the more I realize that consensual non-consent is important for me to go to the places I want to go to.

Not that I'm going there presently anyway...

advochasty said...

Ms. Scarlet,

I agree. But it doesn't mean I like it and it doesn't mean I don't get to question it. While I'm not sharing the details of real punishments she meted out over the weekend; I just didn't think they were fair. That I think something isn't fair doesn't mean I'm less a submissive. If I did something that offended her, I get punished. I get it. I accept it and we move on. But when the punishment is an expression of her own issues; which she is not in touch with; it becomes something different.

I'm being punished for ending a chastity without her permission that though I imposed upon myself she adopted. I was wrong. I will suffer a punishment. It will not bear a relation to the offense. I accept that punishment; but it doesn't make it fair or just. And I think fairness and justice and deter offending behavior. Unfairness and injustice breeds resentment.

I don't think those thoughts make me less of a submissive man.

BTW, no offense taken. And thank you; really thank you, for dropping by and sharing. I really do appreciate it.

Aarkey -

Comment deleted. It was my first. I was excited to see the comment, and then it was spam and it was kind of shocking. I left it up as a trophy. The spambots found me!

My relationship with She is unique. I love her truly. In order to have a relationship with her at all I must accept its long distance nature. I must accept aspects of her personality. She'd be the first to admit she's not a day at the beach.

Maybe there is something to my not wanting to be controlled. If I only want the control I want, it's not really control at all. But aside from my ending the chastity; I really didn't deserve the rest of the mean treatment I got off and on all weekend long. The treatment was more about what is going on with her and her reaction to me than it had to do with my ill perceived offending behavior.

I truly regret ending my chastity as I did. It was pathetic and sad. I didn't have fun. I dishonored her and I feel badly about that.

But I don't feel badly about feeling that she treated me unfairly and said hurtful things. I don't think she realizes how much she can hurt me. When I used to train my old, now dearly departed dog, I had to take into account that he was a "soft" dog. He wanted to please me so much that just a little correction was all that was necessary. Whereas with my female dog I really have to be harder for her to get it.

In the best of all worlds She'd get that. She'd understand my softness and my deep desire to please her. Then I hope she would either not have said what she did that hurt me or she'd own up to the fact that she was being unfair and arbitrary but that because I'm her submissive I get to get beaten on because she's feeling shitty about something completely unrelated to me; not because I deserve it.

Then it's honest. But that asks for a measure of self awareness that just isn't there. I'm a very soft correction. It kills me when I don't please her. She knows that and wields it as she see fit.

Another thing to accept because I continue to want to have her in my life and because she's a dear friend I love deeply.

Ms. Tara Sterling said...

I am surprised at your lack of perspective on this one. Really? If I were in her shoes I would reward the behavior you've described with an extended break from any contact. I have no time for disobedience outside the context of consensual roleplay. I feel based on this essay you are being self centered and passive aggressive. Not service minded or clear about your needs at all.

advochasty said...

Tara -

I think you're reaction is hers and I'm in for a long period of silence. I admit to a little passive aggressiveness in the selfish chastity ending; but otherwise I don't think I deserved the mean treatment; which because it was so personal I haven't described.

To bring it full circle to HMP's original thought that it is always "her way or the highway"; I just don't buy it. If that makes me self centered and passive aggressive I don't get that either.

Her Majesty's Plaything said...

Wow! You seem to be getting quite a bit of response on this one! FWIW I think it can be problematic when Mistress uses her sub as an emotional punching bag just because he is conveniently available. If a sub does something wrong or breaks the rules a swift punishment is certainly justified but to be used as an emotional scratching post just so Mistress can sharpen her claws does seem a bit unfair. Nevertheless it does seem to go with the territory on occasion. I have had a few serious discussions with Her Majesty about this and have actually gotten quite irate about it on a couple of occasions. Perhaps I will understand it better next year when I have 10 solid years of blogging under my belt! :-P

Ms. Tara Sterling said...

Of course, we all get to choose the way we want to be treated. It is so important to be clear with one another about what can be expected, and about what we want and what we can handle. Not that you asked, but my advise to you would be what it is to everyone exploring BDSM and any type of relationship: continue to investigate how to and practice expressing your needs, desires, and what you truly feel comfortable offering of yourself. Try to see your side in it.

advochasty said...


Silver Anniversary of my blog coming up next week!

As I reflected I think I'm both angry at her and afraid of losing her so I do stuff to try and win her over or win her back. I realize that I don't have a language with her to express anger and fear other than bdsm.

Offering to go longer to win her heart and angrily ending my chastity without permission was an expression of both, but I was speaking the wrong language.

Maybe I should try English. Plain English. Distance does make this kind of sharing hard. I'm just going to let the dust settle. I've got plenty of time.

She texted me that I should call her the other night and we had a nice chat. I apologized. She knows I take her displeasure to heart and can be obsessive. She kindly let me off the hook.

But I need a remedial English class. Plain old English.

Tara -

Thanks for the advice. I always appreciate your advice. It is such good advice. Plain and direct communication is obviously key. I expressed myself poorly and unclearly. I just need to learn English ...